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	<title>Comments on: Why Religion should be opposed</title>
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	<description>Motivation, Training &#38; Personal Development</description>
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		<title>By: Evan Hurwitz</title>
		<link>http://www.deonbarnard.net/why-religion-should-be-opposed/comment-page-1/#comment-422</link>
		<dc:creator>Evan Hurwitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Apr 2010 08:44:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deonbarnard.net/why-religion-should-be-opposed/#comment-422</guid>
		<description>Aiden, you would be wrong.

Mathematics is the primary language of Science, but we certainly proves things (usually relationships) in science.

Obvious examples are in Newtonian Physics - we express the relationship in mathematical terms (eg F = mA, v = At + V0, s = At^2 + V0t + S0), we then create experiments to test / prove / validate these relationships.

In the even that we otice something inconsistent, a new theory (or a modification of the old one) is then required, one that not only explains the new evidence, but also continues to explains the old evidence. (Sticking with our previous example, we note that at high Velocities, ie Velocities approaching the speed of light, Newton&#039;s equations break drown, and hence Einstein&#039;s theory of Relativitistic Physics was developed that catered for this anomaly, while not being contradictory to the basic Newtonian framework)

Summary: Physics, Biology, Chemistry and any other hard sciences I&#039;ve neglected certainly do prove things, and the language of those proofs is mathematics.

In answer to you Atheist definition (btw, Atheist is a poor term for us - I think &quot;Lunatic&quot; is a better term for religious people than &quot;Theist&quot;, but I use their own term and not a perjorative. Same applies here - &quot;Atheist&quot; implies we&#039;re missing something, being literally &quot;without a god&quot; - stick with &quot;Humanist&quot; or &quot;rationalist&quot; if you need a term) we do not Believe that there is no god - we have seen the hypothesis, and like the pixie fairies of bubblegum forest we have rejected the hypothesis. To be defined by one of the millions of meaningless hypotheses I&#039;ve rejected seems absurd to ms. (Do you believe in Santa Clause? If not, are you an &quot;Asantaist&quot;? How about an &quot;ADentoFaeist&quot; if you&#039;ve rejected the Tooth Fairy myth?. A far better definition of a Rationalist is that we accept what can be shown to be true, and take on faith that which is proven using a methodology we trust. (Yes, there is sadly some element of faith involved - most of us do not understand quantum physics for example, but we trust the scientific principle that has developed it and the Engineers that have applied it to semiconductor theory, powering pretty much every piece of electronics that you use on a daily basis)

-Ed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aiden, you would be wrong.</p>
<p>Mathematics is the primary language of Science, but we certainly proves things (usually relationships) in science.</p>
<p>Obvious examples are in Newtonian Physics &#8211; we express the relationship in mathematical terms (eg F = mA, v = At + V0, s = At^2 + V0t + S0), we then create experiments to test / prove / validate these relationships.</p>
<p>In the even that we otice something inconsistent, a new theory (or a modification of the old one) is then required, one that not only explains the new evidence, but also continues to explains the old evidence. (Sticking with our previous example, we note that at high Velocities, ie Velocities approaching the speed of light, Newton&#8217;s equations break drown, and hence Einstein&#8217;s theory of Relativitistic Physics was developed that catered for this anomaly, while not being contradictory to the basic Newtonian framework)</p>
<p>Summary: Physics, Biology, Chemistry and any other hard sciences I&#8217;ve neglected certainly do prove things, and the language of those proofs is mathematics.</p>
<p>In answer to you Atheist definition (btw, Atheist is a poor term for us &#8211; I think &#8220;Lunatic&#8221; is a better term for religious people than &#8220;Theist&#8221;, but I use their own term and not a perjorative. Same applies here &#8211; &#8220;Atheist&#8221; implies we&#8217;re missing something, being literally &#8220;without a god&#8221; &#8211; stick with &#8220;Humanist&#8221; or &#8220;rationalist&#8221; if you need a term) we do not Believe that there is no god &#8211; we have seen the hypothesis, and like the pixie fairies of bubblegum forest we have rejected the hypothesis. To be defined by one of the millions of meaningless hypotheses I&#8217;ve rejected seems absurd to ms. (Do you believe in Santa Clause? If not, are you an &#8220;Asantaist&#8221;? How about an &#8220;ADentoFaeist&#8221; if you&#8217;ve rejected the Tooth Fairy myth?. A far better definition of a Rationalist is that we accept what can be shown to be true, and take on faith that which is proven using a methodology we trust. (Yes, there is sadly some element of faith involved &#8211; most of us do not understand quantum physics for example, but we trust the scientific principle that has developed it and the Engineers that have applied it to semiconductor theory, powering pretty much every piece of electronics that you use on a daily basis)</p>
<p>-Ed.</p>
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		<title>By: Deon Barnard</title>
		<link>http://www.deonbarnard.net/why-religion-should-be-opposed/comment-page-1/#comment-393</link>
		<dc:creator>Deon Barnard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Apr 2010 06:51:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deonbarnard.net/why-religion-should-be-opposed/#comment-393</guid>
		<description>Aidan, thanks for adding to my definitions. Good job.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aidan, thanks for adding to my definitions. Good job.</p>
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		<title>By: Aidan</title>
		<link>http://www.deonbarnard.net/why-religion-should-be-opposed/comment-page-1/#comment-391</link>
		<dc:creator>Aidan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Apr 2010 23:36:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deonbarnard.net/why-religion-should-be-opposed/#comment-391</guid>
		<description>Hi, I think your definitions are a bit messed up. This is how I understand them:

&quot;An Atheist is someone who does not believe that a god or gods exists, i.e. God is not real and does not exist.&quot;

 Not believing in something is different from the claim that that thing does not exist. So to say &quot;I do not believe in god&quot; is not also to say &quot;god does not exist&quot;. I don&#039;t believe in Russell&#039;s teapot, but I cannot say that it doesnt exist.

&quot;An Agnostic is someone who thinks that God cannot be proven or that we cannot know God, i.e. there is no evidence for God.&quot; 

To say that one &quot;cannot&quot; prove (ie: there is no evidence that we could have access to which would have a bearing on the matter) that god exists is different from saying that there is no evidence. To say that something is not subject to standards of proof, evidence, or even truth, is to adopt a kind of mysterianism; or mysticism in the case of religion, not agnosticism.
The agnostic, technically, is one who says &quot;there is no evidence for god, therefore no reason for me to believe in (a) god, therefore I do not believe in god&quot;

If by &quot;cannot prove&quot; you mean &quot;cannot prove with available evidence&quot; then maybe. But then, of course, science isn&#039;t really in the business of &quot;proving&quot; anything (if that&#039;s the kind of model you&#039;re drawing on). You prove things in mathematics, not science.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, I think your definitions are a bit messed up. This is how I understand them:</p>
<p>&#8220;An Atheist is someone who does not believe that a god or gods exists, i.e. God is not real and does not exist.&#8221;</p>
<p> Not believing in something is different from the claim that that thing does not exist. So to say &#8220;I do not believe in god&#8221; is not also to say &#8220;god does not exist&#8221;. I don&#8217;t believe in Russell&#8217;s teapot, but I cannot say that it doesnt exist.</p>
<p>&#8220;An Agnostic is someone who thinks that God cannot be proven or that we cannot know God, i.e. there is no evidence for God.&#8221; </p>
<p>To say that one &#8220;cannot&#8221; prove (ie: there is no evidence that we could have access to which would have a bearing on the matter) that god exists is different from saying that there is no evidence. To say that something is not subject to standards of proof, evidence, or even truth, is to adopt a kind of mysterianism; or mysticism in the case of religion, not agnosticism.<br />
The agnostic, technically, is one who says &#8220;there is no evidence for god, therefore no reason for me to believe in (a) god, therefore I do not believe in god&#8221;</p>
<p>If by &#8220;cannot prove&#8221; you mean &#8220;cannot prove with available evidence&#8221; then maybe. But then, of course, science isn&#8217;t really in the business of &#8220;proving&#8221; anything (if that&#8217;s the kind of model you&#8217;re drawing on). You prove things in mathematics, not science.</p>
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		<title>By: Deon Barnard</title>
		<link>http://www.deonbarnard.net/why-religion-should-be-opposed/comment-page-1/#comment-101</link>
		<dc:creator>Deon Barnard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 14:00:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deonbarnard.net/why-religion-should-be-opposed/#comment-101</guid>
		<description>Hey cuz, you&#039;re right about finding answers by asking questions. Thanks for bravely posting a response. Love ya!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey cuz, you&#8217;re right about finding answers by asking questions. Thanks for bravely posting a response. Love ya!</p>
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		<title>By: Estelle Esterhuizen</title>
		<link>http://www.deonbarnard.net/why-religion-should-be-opposed/comment-page-1/#comment-98</link>
		<dc:creator>Estelle Esterhuizen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 05:37:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deonbarnard.net/why-religion-should-be-opposed/#comment-98</guid>
		<description>Hi cuz

I pondered whether or not I should comment on this article, but decided to put forth a small piece of my opinion seeing as you seem to be recieving some flack for it.

I think its absolutely great that you are questioning the &quot;status quo&quot; and that everyone should do so, not just once, but continously throughout their life. This is how we learn and evolve.

As for myself, I can honestly say you cannot &quot;box&quot; me in a religion or faith, yet I do &quot;feel&quot; there is something more to life than just birth and death. I like to call this &quot;God /(s)&quot; for the mere convenience, but do not believe it is the end and beginning of what was or is to come, but a comfort (or anger outlet) when confronted with seemingly &quot;unsolvable&quot; issues.

In the end the &quot;right&quot; answer will only be discovered when people do start asking questions, so well done on having the guts to do so!

Keep the great articles coming, I do enjoy having my views challenged by them!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi cuz</p>
<p>I pondered whether or not I should comment on this article, but decided to put forth a small piece of my opinion seeing as you seem to be recieving some flack for it.</p>
<p>I think its absolutely great that you are questioning the &#8220;status quo&#8221; and that everyone should do so, not just once, but continously throughout their life. This is how we learn and evolve.</p>
<p>As for myself, I can honestly say you cannot &#8220;box&#8221; me in a religion or faith, yet I do &#8220;feel&#8221; there is something more to life than just birth and death. I like to call this &#8220;God /(s)&#8221; for the mere convenience, but do not believe it is the end and beginning of what was or is to come, but a comfort (or anger outlet) when confronted with seemingly &#8220;unsolvable&#8221; issues.</p>
<p>In the end the &#8220;right&#8221; answer will only be discovered when people do start asking questions, so well done on having the guts to do so!</p>
<p>Keep the great articles coming, I do enjoy having my views challenged by them!</p>
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		<title>By: Carla</title>
		<link>http://www.deonbarnard.net/why-religion-should-be-opposed/comment-page-1/#comment-97</link>
		<dc:creator>Carla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 03:10:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deonbarnard.net/why-religion-should-be-opposed/#comment-97</guid>
		<description>Deon - Loved your article.  It&#039;s really quite interesting how everything starts to make sense when you stop trying to justify and rationalize beliefs that do not make sense.  When you open your mind to other possibilities it&#039;s a beautiful, freeing experience.  I find it very difficult to even tolerate religious people anymore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Deon &#8211; Loved your article.  It&#8217;s really quite interesting how everything starts to make sense when you stop trying to justify and rationalize beliefs that do not make sense.  When you open your mind to other possibilities it&#8217;s a beautiful, freeing experience.  I find it very difficult to even tolerate religious people anymore.</p>
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		<title>By: nick bulka</title>
		<link>http://www.deonbarnard.net/why-religion-should-be-opposed/comment-page-1/#comment-95</link>
		<dc:creator>nick bulka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 23:42:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deonbarnard.net/why-religion-should-be-opposed/#comment-95</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s unfortunate, but Christelle&#039;s comment is all too typical of Christians.  A post like yours immediately provokes an angry response, simply because your opinion is different than hers. You don&#039;t have the right to publish your opinion,  but she has every right to publish hers. You don&#039;t have the right to judge her - only god can do that.  Yet that doesn&#039;t stop her from judging you.  

Christ&#039;s teachings are clear - love for friends and enemies, and forgiveness for all.  It&#039;s too bad more Christians don&#039;t practice what he taught.  In my experience, it&#039;s more of a &quot;do as I say, not as I do&quot; mentality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s unfortunate, but Christelle&#8217;s comment is all too typical of Christians.  A post like yours immediately provokes an angry response, simply because your opinion is different than hers. You don&#8217;t have the right to publish your opinion,  but she has every right to publish hers. You don&#8217;t have the right to judge her &#8211; only god can do that.  Yet that doesn&#8217;t stop her from judging you.  </p>
<p>Christ&#8217;s teachings are clear &#8211; love for friends and enemies, and forgiveness for all.  It&#8217;s too bad more Christians don&#8217;t practice what he taught.  In my experience, it&#8217;s more of a &#8220;do as I say, not as I do&#8221; mentality.</p>
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		<title>By: Denis</title>
		<link>http://www.deonbarnard.net/why-religion-should-be-opposed/comment-page-1/#comment-94</link>
		<dc:creator>Denis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 19:47:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deonbarnard.net/why-religion-should-be-opposed/#comment-94</guid>
		<description>Hi Deon. Firstly let me say I have met you before and that I know u are a good guy. Secondly well played on your site and comments as this is the first time anyone has ever tempted me into offering a written opinion, I normally prefer to talk and typing is like drilling a hole through my hand slowly:) (I suppose physice would say that there is so much empty space in my particles in proportion that I am only drilling through nothing or space and that the pain is actually  a reflection or probably a perception of what my mind is interpreting) By the way my spelling is horrendous! I start by saying I completely agree with your view on religon being controlling mechanism for the masses. It is interesting that even if a religon is started with the best possible intentions, we could start our own religon tommorow as there are so many people searching for an answer, that the people involved on all levels of that religon over time twist is, warp it and bend it to become a shadow of what it was possibly intended to be. As we know it becomes about control, money, power and greed all in the name of an &quot;unconditionally loving&quot; god. Bit screwed up! I empathise with people that are &quot;blindly&quot; following such propoganda. My current and I need to emphasise, contstantly evolving, point of view draws on a number of religons, physics and just gut feel and logic. I suppose my advice to anybody is that if it feels right then it is. By feeling it you are creating it and by creating it you have made it real. If you need to be a christian then I have no problem with that but at least try and ask some difficult questions as opposed to blindly believing anything preached to you. I have a problem with an unconditionaly loving god or should we call her mrs god? (why not?), sending his &quot;children to hell, doesnt make a lot of sense to me. If your own child makes a mistake, no matter how drastic, would you send it to hell for eternity to burn? And if we believe that god is greater then we can only understand a fraction of his love in comparison. Since this a point of view site let me state mine. I believe that we are all one, call it energy, call it god, call it old socks makes no difference. I believe that this energy ( I&#039;m going to call it that) is experiencing itself in a way that is different from true love. For it to know itself it needs to experience itself as the opposite or it could never know what it is. My gut feeling tells me that I should believe in reincarnation as it makes more sense to me than one shot where we are to get it all right! As we know energy can not be created or destroyed merely changed from one form into another. I believe in the concept of Karma which would say to me I can do whatever I want here but I wont go to hell I will just come back again to learn the same lesson I inflicted. The difference here is I do not believe god makes me come back but that I ( there is no I if we are all one) would chose myself to come back to learn again. I really and truly am not opposed to different views and only through platforms like this and with constructive debates can we ever truly march a slow path to enlightenment. I sometimes like looking at the world and just seeing the beauty and intricacy in the system (a little like matrix), I just wish that we could get this collective consciousness (which has been scientifically tested and measured to work) to start working for all of us. The cynic in me says that I cannot see this happening as most people are to involved in themselves, what buddhists would call ego, to worry about what we are doing to our planet or to others. To finsh off I guess in my perception, belief, faith whatever nametag we give it, it doesnt matter what you do but all we should really TRY to do is ask ourselves everytime we do anything.. Is this a higher choice? Does it make you a better person? Should you have cut off that person in traffic? Should you have stolen that pencil? Should you have fought with your partner? I am not judging what you have done because it is all perfect but if we stop and think just before or during if we are making a higher choice, chances are that our gut will tell us we not. It&#039;s late and I&#039;m rambling, as I said earlier I am not so good at articulating in written form. Nicely done on your site Deon and thanks for stirring the pot a little:)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Deon. Firstly let me say I have met you before and that I know u are a good guy. Secondly well played on your site and comments as this is the first time anyone has ever tempted me into offering a written opinion, I normally prefer to talk and typing is like drilling a hole through my hand slowly:) (I suppose physice would say that there is so much empty space in my particles in proportion that I am only drilling through nothing or space and that the pain is actually  a reflection or probably a perception of what my mind is interpreting) By the way my spelling is horrendous! I start by saying I completely agree with your view on religon being controlling mechanism for the masses. It is interesting that even if a religon is started with the best possible intentions, we could start our own religon tommorow as there are so many people searching for an answer, that the people involved on all levels of that religon over time twist is, warp it and bend it to become a shadow of what it was possibly intended to be. As we know it becomes about control, money, power and greed all in the name of an &#8220;unconditionally loving&#8221; god. Bit screwed up! I empathise with people that are &#8220;blindly&#8221; following such propoganda. My current and I need to emphasise, contstantly evolving, point of view draws on a number of religons, physics and just gut feel and logic. I suppose my advice to anybody is that if it feels right then it is. By feeling it you are creating it and by creating it you have made it real. If you need to be a christian then I have no problem with that but at least try and ask some difficult questions as opposed to blindly believing anything preached to you. I have a problem with an unconditionaly loving god or should we call her mrs god? (why not?), sending his &#8220;children to hell, doesnt make a lot of sense to me. If your own child makes a mistake, no matter how drastic, would you send it to hell for eternity to burn? And if we believe that god is greater then we can only understand a fraction of his love in comparison. Since this a point of view site let me state mine. I believe that we are all one, call it energy, call it god, call it old socks makes no difference. I believe that this energy ( I&#8217;m going to call it that) is experiencing itself in a way that is different from true love. For it to know itself it needs to experience itself as the opposite or it could never know what it is. My gut feeling tells me that I should believe in reincarnation as it makes more sense to me than one shot where we are to get it all right! As we know energy can not be created or destroyed merely changed from one form into another. I believe in the concept of Karma which would say to me I can do whatever I want here but I wont go to hell I will just come back again to learn the same lesson I inflicted. The difference here is I do not believe god makes me come back but that I ( there is no I if we are all one) would chose myself to come back to learn again. I really and truly am not opposed to different views and only through platforms like this and with constructive debates can we ever truly march a slow path to enlightenment. I sometimes like looking at the world and just seeing the beauty and intricacy in the system (a little like matrix), I just wish that we could get this collective consciousness (which has been scientifically tested and measured to work) to start working for all of us. The cynic in me says that I cannot see this happening as most people are to involved in themselves, what buddhists would call ego, to worry about what we are doing to our planet or to others. To finsh off I guess in my perception, belief, faith whatever nametag we give it, it doesnt matter what you do but all we should really TRY to do is ask ourselves everytime we do anything.. Is this a higher choice? Does it make you a better person? Should you have cut off that person in traffic? Should you have stolen that pencil? Should you have fought with your partner? I am not judging what you have done because it is all perfect but if we stop and think just before or during if we are making a higher choice, chances are that our gut will tell us we not. It&#8217;s late and I&#8217;m rambling, as I said earlier I am not so good at articulating in written form. Nicely done on your site Deon and thanks for stirring the pot a little:)</p>
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		<title>By: dg</title>
		<link>http://www.deonbarnard.net/why-religion-should-be-opposed/comment-page-1/#comment-93</link>
		<dc:creator>dg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 15:57:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deonbarnard.net/why-religion-should-be-opposed/#comment-93</guid>
		<description>Religion is needed in the same way as alchohol is needed, people need an outlet, nothing to do with God really. 
Wars and destruction of nations would happen just as quickly without religion, it would require some people to get a little bit more creative in justifying hate and greed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Religion is needed in the same way as alchohol is needed, people need an outlet, nothing to do with God really.<br />
Wars and destruction of nations would happen just as quickly without religion, it would require some people to get a little bit more creative in justifying hate and greed.</p>
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		<title>By: Deon Barnard</title>
		<link>http://www.deonbarnard.net/why-religion-should-be-opposed/comment-page-1/#comment-91</link>
		<dc:creator>Deon Barnard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 15:03:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deonbarnard.net/why-religion-should-be-opposed/#comment-91</guid>
		<description>Hi Laide,

You seem to be a religionist... someone who believes anything for the sake of belief, I assume because it comforts you in some way. As an Atheist I have no need or reason to believe in something because there&#039;s pressure to do so, instead I gain knowledge through testing, logic and evidence. The books you&#039;ve mentioned are anything but good guides for humanity, the Bible and the Kur&#039;an are a jumble of contradictory myths that preach love and peace and hatred and war all in the same breath. Just because I only adhere to the love part doesn&#039;t make the book valid as the source of all truth. There have been many great guides throughout history that have taught us to think rationally not religiously, go read some of their books - I suggest Richard Dawkins&#039; &quot;The God Delusion&quot; as a good place to start. When people give testimony of great things they&#039;re giving testimony to the wonders of the natural world and, needing a reason, invent God. Douglas Adams said, &quot;Isn&#039;t it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Laide,</p>
<p>You seem to be a religionist&#8230; someone who believes anything for the sake of belief, I assume because it comforts you in some way. As an Atheist I have no need or reason to believe in something because there&#8217;s pressure to do so, instead I gain knowledge through testing, logic and evidence. The books you&#8217;ve mentioned are anything but good guides for humanity, the Bible and the Kur&#8217;an are a jumble of contradictory myths that preach love and peace and hatred and war all in the same breath. Just because I only adhere to the love part doesn&#8217;t make the book valid as the source of all truth. There have been many great guides throughout history that have taught us to think rationally not religiously, go read some of their books &#8211; I suggest Richard Dawkins&#8217; &#8220;The God Delusion&#8221; as a good place to start. When people give testimony of great things they&#8217;re giving testimony to the wonders of the natural world and, needing a reason, invent God. Douglas Adams said, &#8220;Isn&#8217;t it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?&#8221;</p>
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